Brother, I am a protestant with love for catholics and their tradition. But if “The case for Catholicism” is meant to reach outside a non-catholic echo chamber, this writing falls woefully short. If you think protestants don’t have robust rebuttals to your points, as it seems you feel, you have really missed the mark.
Point #1 really wasn’t a point but a lead in to point #2:
this makes no mention or rationalization of the wide ranging and disparate beliefs of many of the early church fathers, this is all within reason, but many came to different positions on a great many things. How could this be if they all had the Holy Spirit? This has occurred all throughout catholic church history, even until now, heck, even the canon evolved. I’d imagine you walk away from reading the bible with some different interpretations than Pope Francis, i’m positive John Paul II would.
To posit that because i read my Bible and come to a different interpretation of some things than the catholic church is because I don’t have the Holy Spirit is an ugly sentiment and beneath you id assume (Not knowing you but giving you the presumption of grace).
point #3 Not sure how you mean the church was infallible before the bible was canonized. Half the new testament was written to rebuke members of the early church. They also had 3/4 of the bible written at that time and the last 1/4 came within a generation. And none of the church activity looked like modern catholic ecclesiology. These were primarily house churches with “husband of one wife” elders and overseers.
I think you can do better than to degrade the protestant tradition by insinuating that we have no answers to those points. Those are just passing rebuttals from a protestant perspective.
Lastly, i genuinely hope to bridge the gap between our faith traditions and this must be done in good faith. If you have confessed with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believed in your heart that God raised him from the dead, i believe you will be saved. I hope you can extend the same courtesy to me and everyone i love. i wish the best for you and your family and for your faith tradition and hope we can both serve God to our fullest potential in our chosen traditions. God bless!
I concur likewise that this was not the best way to address reasons for conversion. The initial point about the problem of the Canon was a better starting point to explore. These points are persuasive only if you already are Catholic.
Yeah, I agree with your interpretation of the issue, which is at odds with the original post. Ultimately, though, you know I don’t agree with your answer to who gets to decide. Which is the correct heart of the divide.
You are right. The church was here and people were following Jesus before the Bible was written. This just recently hit me duh duh. The whole sola scriptura thing - not going for it. And yes if everyone was listening to the same Holy Spirit there wouldn't be all these varied beliefs etc. There are many false prophets and many are deceived. We have to discern the difference. Well i could go on. I write about some of this stuff...
I am a convert to Catholicism as well from the evangelical world of Protestantism. My parents didn’t practice a faith, but my mother was good enough to send us to a Sunday school. My first experience in the Catholic Church was awe-inspired and I knew at that moment that I belonged and was missing something. It took six years to find my way to that church again and stay.
It is interesting how you can sit in a room full of people and you’re the only one in that room asking the questions and being turned to a different path. It is true that we are all called, but few answer the call. I thank God for calling me and I give Him even greater thanks for giving me a heart that could hear Him.
Another good question to ask: is the canon of Scripture divinely revealed?
If yes: then Sola Scriptura is false (or, practically, means nothing), since all Scripture depends on non scriptural revelation to know it. If it isn't, then that which is scripture is knowable by reason alone, which is a suspect take -- knowing God's infallible truth fully requires revelation, but knowing that something is God's infallible truth doesn't require that it be Divinely revealed to you?
The Catholic answer from Dei Verbum: both Scripture and Sacred Tradition flow from the same source, and tend towards one another in a sort of organic whole, guided by the Holy Spirit through revelation.
Sounds similar in several respects to my journey. You keep trying to figure out that pesky Scripture, eventually you find yourself sitting before the Magisterium.
Personally I am not Catholic and so I won’t agree with you on a lot (arguably most) of doctrinal issues, but I will say this: in my experience, a lot of Protestants and other denominations don’t seem to know exactly *what* they believe, and Catholics do. I don’t agree with a lot of Catholic dogmas but it seems to provide definite answers instead of just the sense of “religion”. This was a very interesting post, thank you for posting!!!
Interesting, the Greek texts were before the traditional church. And now, they should be used to compare with church doctrine. Either we accept/believe the Bible is the written word of God or we choose creeds, which oddly, oppose almost everything the Apostles taught.
Of course, there is a responsibility to ensure we are reading authentic Bible translations rather than a publisher biased or enhanced text.
I’ve been on a quest for more than one year to find not only my true home but the true home in the Faith. I love my Protestant family, but I don’t agree with many of their beliefs and traditions. So, I’ve been studying Church history, the Bible itself (first and foremost), and many texts and videos on Catholicism and Orthodoxy. I’m convinced I’ll convert to one of the two, but I’m still having a couple of issues with those two branches as well.
Anyway, thank you for posting this; such testimonies help others in their Faith walks.
Why do I need to confess to a priest? Why can’t I just confess to Jesus my sins and ask for forgiveness? What is the fascination with Mary? I don’t understand these two in particular as a component of my faith journey.
Brother, I am a protestant with love for catholics and their tradition. But if “The case for Catholicism” is meant to reach outside a non-catholic echo chamber, this writing falls woefully short. If you think protestants don’t have robust rebuttals to your points, as it seems you feel, you have really missed the mark.
Point #1 really wasn’t a point but a lead in to point #2:
this makes no mention or rationalization of the wide ranging and disparate beliefs of many of the early church fathers, this is all within reason, but many came to different positions on a great many things. How could this be if they all had the Holy Spirit? This has occurred all throughout catholic church history, even until now, heck, even the canon evolved. I’d imagine you walk away from reading the bible with some different interpretations than Pope Francis, i’m positive John Paul II would.
To posit that because i read my Bible and come to a different interpretation of some things than the catholic church is because I don’t have the Holy Spirit is an ugly sentiment and beneath you id assume (Not knowing you but giving you the presumption of grace).
point #3 Not sure how you mean the church was infallible before the bible was canonized. Half the new testament was written to rebuke members of the early church. They also had 3/4 of the bible written at that time and the last 1/4 came within a generation. And none of the church activity looked like modern catholic ecclesiology. These were primarily house churches with “husband of one wife” elders and overseers.
I think you can do better than to degrade the protestant tradition by insinuating that we have no answers to those points. Those are just passing rebuttals from a protestant perspective.
Lastly, i genuinely hope to bridge the gap between our faith traditions and this must be done in good faith. If you have confessed with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believed in your heart that God raised him from the dead, i believe you will be saved. I hope you can extend the same courtesy to me and everyone i love. i wish the best for you and your family and for your faith tradition and hope we can both serve God to our fullest potential in our chosen traditions. God bless!
I concur likewise that this was not the best way to address reasons for conversion. The initial point about the problem of the Canon was a better starting point to explore. These points are persuasive only if you already are Catholic.
Yeah, I agree with your interpretation of the issue, which is at odds with the original post. Ultimately, though, you know I don’t agree with your answer to who gets to decide. Which is the correct heart of the divide.
You are right. The church was here and people were following Jesus before the Bible was written. This just recently hit me duh duh. The whole sola scriptura thing - not going for it. And yes if everyone was listening to the same Holy Spirit there wouldn't be all these varied beliefs etc. There are many false prophets and many are deceived. We have to discern the difference. Well i could go on. I write about some of this stuff...
I am a convert to Catholicism as well from the evangelical world of Protestantism. My parents didn’t practice a faith, but my mother was good enough to send us to a Sunday school. My first experience in the Catholic Church was awe-inspired and I knew at that moment that I belonged and was missing something. It took six years to find my way to that church again and stay.
It is interesting how you can sit in a room full of people and you’re the only one in that room asking the questions and being turned to a different path. It is true that we are all called, but few answer the call. I thank God for calling me and I give Him even greater thanks for giving me a heart that could hear Him.
Another good question to ask: is the canon of Scripture divinely revealed?
If yes: then Sola Scriptura is false (or, practically, means nothing), since all Scripture depends on non scriptural revelation to know it. If it isn't, then that which is scripture is knowable by reason alone, which is a suspect take -- knowing God's infallible truth fully requires revelation, but knowing that something is God's infallible truth doesn't require that it be Divinely revealed to you?
The Catholic answer from Dei Verbum: both Scripture and Sacred Tradition flow from the same source, and tend towards one another in a sort of organic whole, guided by the Holy Spirit through revelation.
Sounds similar in several respects to my journey. You keep trying to figure out that pesky Scripture, eventually you find yourself sitting before the Magisterium.
Personally I am not Catholic and so I won’t agree with you on a lot (arguably most) of doctrinal issues, but I will say this: in my experience, a lot of Protestants and other denominations don’t seem to know exactly *what* they believe, and Catholics do. I don’t agree with a lot of Catholic dogmas but it seems to provide definite answers instead of just the sense of “religion”. This was a very interesting post, thank you for posting!!!
Interesting, the Greek texts were before the traditional church. And now, they should be used to compare with church doctrine. Either we accept/believe the Bible is the written word of God or we choose creeds, which oddly, oppose almost everything the Apostles taught.
Of course, there is a responsibility to ensure we are reading authentic Bible translations rather than a publisher biased or enhanced text.
I’ve been on a quest for more than one year to find not only my true home but the true home in the Faith. I love my Protestant family, but I don’t agree with many of their beliefs and traditions. So, I’ve been studying Church history, the Bible itself (first and foremost), and many texts and videos on Catholicism and Orthodoxy. I’m convinced I’ll convert to one of the two, but I’m still having a couple of issues with those two branches as well.
Anyway, thank you for posting this; such testimonies help others in their Faith walks.
Catholicism came long before orthodoxy.
To be deep into history is to cease to be a Protestant.
Say what??
Why do I need to confess to a priest? Why can’t I just confess to Jesus my sins and ask for forgiveness? What is the fascination with Mary? I don’t understand these two in particular as a component of my faith journey.
I'm also a convert. These reasons, as well as others, are big ones for a lot of the conversions happening. Nice article and God bless you!
https://open.substack.com/pub/bridgetograce/p/lost-in-translation?r=5h8n5b&utm_medium=ios
You started your essay with the same point that prompted me to write about sacred tradition and holy scripture. There must be something in the air